Using Long Wheelbase Sedans To Determine Brand Positions

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 12/10/2015 at 17:43 • Filed to: Brands

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It takes a lot of confidence to only offer your flagship in the long wheelbase variant. The all new 7-series seems to be jumping in now as far as the US is concerned, and I think it’s safe to expect the XJ to go long wheelbase only soon. But that’s just speculation, let me break into how I’m attempting to figure out US brand positions by utilizing each automaker’s big ass sedan in their Grey Poupon variant.

The Quattroporte, believe it or not, is the top point for these limo variants to beat. Of course, nowadays that simply means this is the model that the Mercedes S-Class makes sure to attack from a “value” prospective, and everything else just runs against the S-Class. Now, due to the Quattroporte being the top metric, I set up the list so that the variants of each automaker’s models best compare with the current base spec Italian limo. Note that these things are still shorter than a majority of the vehicles on US roads. I’m leaving off the British super luxury sedans since that list would knock the upcoming Cadillac CT6 and Genesis G90 off the list, and they are the ones I really wanted to look at.

Maserati Quattroporte Dimensions:
207.2” L
76.7” W
58.3” H
124.8” WB
The Quattroporte S starts at $99,900 for 404hp, 3.0L V6.

The Quattroporte seems to rely most on the Maserati name, which in turn relies on the appeal of its Ferrari association. Really, this is the exotic car experience in limo form and that is why the Quattroporte sits at the top end of this particular group despite obvious shortcomings.

Advantage: Exotic Experience

S-Class dimensions:
207 L
75 W
59 H
124.6” WB
S550 starts at $95,650 for 449hp, 4.7L V8.

It has come to a point where Mercedes doesn’t even bother to sell the standard wheelbase variant in the US, and this sedan still outsells all rivals. Talk about a benchmark, this is the vehicle that is always mentioned when talking about consumer limos. Pretty much the 3-series or 911 in regards to a model best representing the height of the segment.

Advantage: Segment Benchmark

Jaguar XJ-L Dimensions:
207 L
75 W
58 H
124.3” WB
XJL Supercharged starts at $95,000 for 470hp, 5.0L V8.

Jaguar is much like the S-Class. If the goal is to go after Maserati, then Mercedes focuses its attack by besting every facet of technology and engineering on the Maserati. Jaguar goes more for that exotic ownership experience in regards to design, performance, and even reliability and frequency of dealership visits, but of course at a much better value.

Advantage: Near-Exotic Nature

BMW 7-Series:
207 L
75 W
58 H
126.4” WB
750i starts at $94,400 for 445hp, 4.4L V8.

Now everything I said about Jaguar, imagine BMW just doing the same thing but having an absolute need to rival Mercedes. Thus, you end up with a limo more focused on driver engagement than the Mercedes, but not so much on the personality aspect as the Jaguar or Maserati.

Advantage: Driver Focused German Refinement

Audi A8-L:
207 L
77 W
58 H
122.9” WB
Audi A8L 4.0T Sport starts at $90,500 for 450hp, 4.0L V8.

The Audi is focused on sliding into any gaps BMW and Mercedes leave between them. A simple goal that is becoming more and more difficult to discern as the other two rival companies start to converge towards a similar point. What was once a fantastic position less than a decade ago is now becoming a disadvantage due to both BMW and Mercedes being able to place pressure on Audi from either side.

Advantage: Perfect Compromise Between BMW and Mercedes

At this point, we get into models that are not set up to be “direct” competitors with the long wheelbase variants above, however they are close enough to be considered and usually retain the “value” proposition for the group.

Lexus LS-L Dimensions
205 L
74 W
58 H
121.7” WB

Oddly enough, Lexus doesn’t offer the 5.0L V8 in any models other than the hybrid LS600H. The LS460L AWD starts at $82,805 but is still below the 400hp standard that would push it up into the same field and be a direct competitor to the models listed above. If they made an LS500L, the pricing would still fall under $89,000 and give them a 438hp, 5.0L V8 limo and keep Lexus in step with the Germans.

Advantage: Reliability and Ease of Ownership

Cadillac CT6 Dimensions:
204 L
74 W
58 H
122.4” WB

You can get into a 400hp, 3.0L V6 for just $64,395 or move all the way up to the top platinum level trim for $87,465 (which is likely to be the vehicle that competes with everything else). There is room above this model, especially if Cadillac decides to make a long wheelbase version of this vehicle. We know that a twin-turbo V8 is coming, so this sedan really does have the potential to cement Cadillac right inside the heart of the luxury market rather than as a bargain player in the sector.

Advantage: Unbeatable Performance per Dollar Value

Genesis G90 Dimensions:
204.9” L
75.4” W
58.9” H
124.4” WB

Surprisingly, the Genesis actually is set up to take on the luxury limousines. Every dimensions, especially the wheelbase, is right in line with the segment, however the overall length is more akin to where the LS-L and CT6 are set. It somehow found a new sweet spot between the standard wheelbase and long wheelbase variants of the luxury sedans. With the 419hp, 5.0L V8 the Genesis should start around the $70,000 to $75,000 price point or else risk being decimated by the Caddy in particular in terms of value. This still leaves $20,000 gap between a comparable G90 to your entry level, top end luxury limo.

Advantage: Unbeatable Features and Technology per Dollar Value

Looking to the long wheelbase sedans, we can surmise where automaker’s position themselves and the brand. If you were noting the order, which was price in relation to the top end model, you’ll find this is the current hierarchy:

1. Maserati
2. Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW
5. Audi
6. Lexus
7. Cadillac
8. Genesis

And looking at the prices, Cadillac is right on the heels of Lexus, and it is becoming a free-for-all at the top end.

I think the ranking is accurate to where I personally see the placement of each brand appeal in the US. Maserati still exotic. Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW somewhat interchangeable at this point. Audi still closing in on the other two German automakers. Lexus needing a bit of a push to keep in the same group. Lastly, Cadillac rapidly catching up to Lexus.

It’s no surprise that the Genesis brand would fall at the bottom of this list, but it does still make it on. This means that Volvo, Infiniti, Lincoln, Acura, and Buick/GMC are going to be a nightmare for Hyundai’s child and vice versa. Overall though, I think that is exactly why Hyundai chose to start Genesis now. They can get into the luxury market before Volvo and Infiniti begin to move back up, and even if Genesis is overtaken, it will still fall into the premium brand category.

The only issue for Hyundai is Cadillac matching the same intensity in terms of value. Luckily, like Jaguar and Mercedes, they have the same goal but with two different approaches, meaning Cadillac won’t stop attacking upward in order to focus on stopping Genesis from moving up.

I’ll have to sit down and do this for the mainstream players sometime. I also found out Porsche is within the same group as Maserati and Aston Martin.

davedave1111 > Wobbles the Mind 12/10/2015 at 17:56

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I haven’t been in the back of most of those, but you have to watch out for the ones where the ‘luxury saloon’ doesn’t actually have space for adult passengers to be comfortable in the back seats. The old Jag XJ was like that - better legroom than a 3-series Coupe, but not by much.

Wobbles the Mind > davedave1111 12/10/2015 at 17:59

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All the platforms are updated, and that isn’t an issue on the long wheelbase models. The only thing that changes is headroom, which is why I didn’t use models like the Panamera, Rapide, or FF. They just don’t match. I could use the Bentley and Rolls Royce, however their positioning is very apparent.

JR1 > Wobbles the Mind 12/10/2015 at 18:09

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It is really starting to become a very bloated market segment. There can only be so much

davedave1111 > Wobbles the Mind 12/10/2015 at 18:10

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What I meant is that the LWB-only thing isn’t necessarily a sign of anything except cramped rear seats on the standard model.

Wobbles the Mind > davedave1111 12/10/2015 at 18:17

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You’re completely correct! I guess that’s true across all segments including trucks as well. Size is a part of the value proposition, but numbers don’t match up to actual interior space. I mean I sat in a Genesis Sedan and that felt bigger than any FWD full size sedan I’ve been in. Got to just go for the guess sometimes.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Wobbles the Mind 12/10/2015 at 18:20

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207”? that’s cute.

Try 232.9”

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Wobbles the Mind 12/10/2015 at 18:47

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Yes, but while the Maserati is longer, both wheelbase and overall length wise, there is much mor interior space in the S class.

davedave1111 > Wobbles the Mind 12/10/2015 at 19:09

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“I guess that’s true across all segments including trucks as well.”

Now you mention it, the only crew-cab truck I’ve ever been in was unbelievably cramped in the back - felt like less space than the back of a three door supermini hatchback. Is that normal?

Wobbles the Mind > davedave1111 12/10/2015 at 19:30

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That was probably a double cab model, the crew cabs are overly spacious across all brands now.

davedave1111 > Wobbles the Mind 12/10/2015 at 21:10

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Might well be, because it was a few years ago. And it was probably a small truck by US standards.